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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Dec 20, 2011 23:13:23 GMT
Club Championship 2012 Proposals Here are the changes I would like to see in next year’s Club Championship, and the reasons behind them. I have tried to benefit the regular participants rather than those of any speed, as this needs to be for everybody within the club. At the moment, the system gives a slight boost to the faster runners, and a slightly bigger one to those who are improving and/or having a good season, so I have tried to keep things that way. At this stage, it’s a wish list, but please read them and let me know what you think. 1. Change the scoring system slightly to award 25 points to the first runner home in each division, 24 to the second and so on, to a minimum of 5 points for completing a race. This will reduce the numbers of runners scoring the minimum (especially if the Paddock Wood Half is one of the races), and will benefit the club championship regulars as it is less likely they will be overhauled by a faster runner who runs fewer races. This is also true as the club has grown in recent years. Keep the bonus points system exactly as it is. 2. Leave the divisions largely as they are, but with a few tweaks here and there to try to rebalance the size of some of the divisions with a view to making them a little more competitive. 3. Increase the “normal” number of races from 9 to 10 – three at each distance, 10K, 10 mile and half marathon. Use all the Kent Grand Prix races of these distances as club championship races EXCEPT the Maidstone Half, where safety and the smooth running of the race are more important. The tenth race will be a fourth race at one of the distances, and selected in an attempt to spread the season over as much of the year as possible. This is the biggest change I am proposing: 4. Runners to keep their best 6 scores in any of the races, but they will only be eligible for end-of-season distance prizes if they have completed two races at a given distance. I hope this will encourage more people to take part as there will no longer be the need to do 2 half marathons (you could run 3 10Ks and 3 10-milers), and it will also mean that nobody will be ruled out for a season just because they are unavailable for two races at a given distance.
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Post by Paul Ash on Dec 21, 2011 0:00:57 GMT
Andrew, Firstly, thank you for doing such a good job in organising the Club Championship.
I support your first three points, however, I think we should review the bonus system, maybe reducing the maximum points awarded for a PB. The bonus system is too heavily rewarded so to limit the maximum points available to say five would redress the balance between improving runners and fast runners.
With your fourth proposal, we shouldn’t alter the existing system of two races at each distance as the Club Championship should be awarded to the best all round runner and not one who is suited to a particular distance. We should encourage everyone to race at all distances as this will also affect the team’s performance in the Kent Grand Prix. We all know that the Marathon distance is the least supported race in the Kent Grand Prix, by not encouraging participation at all distances could prevent us from winning the Grand Prix next year!
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Dec 26, 2011 23:07:52 GMT
Thank you, Paul. Others, please comment, even if it's just a case of "I agree with ..."
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Post by Barrie on Dec 28, 2011 9:00:03 GMT
I like the 6 best scores from any distance rule - having looked at the ful list of GP races for 2012, if you run all 10 GP events you will have run enough of the Club Champs races to qualify. This should give the runners who concentrate on the GP a better chance in the club champs.
10 races is also good - perhaps the 10th race could be out of the area or something a little different?
I still think the PB system is a little too generous, but it's been discussed and I appreciate the reasons for leaving it alone.
Overall, I think a good balance has been found - thanks to Andrew for all his time spent throughout the year looking after this for us!
Thanks,
Barrie
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Dec 28, 2011 10:33:48 GMT
Kent Grand PRIX 2012
29 January Canterbury 10m Invicta East Kent AC
12 February Deal Half Marathon Deal Tri
4 March Thanet 20 (KC) Thanet Roadrunners AC
6 April Folkestone 10 (KC) Folkestone Running Club
15 April Darenth Valley 10K Swanley and District Athletic Club
20 May Larkfield 10K (KC) Larkfield AC
TBC Harvel 5 Harvel Hash House Harriers
22 July Dartford Half Marathon Dartford Harriers AC
2 September Thanet Marathon (KC) Thanet Roadrunners AC
TBC Maidstone Half Marathon (KC) Maidstone Harriers
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Post by Mike Murdoch on Dec 29, 2011 22:32:13 GMT
Andrew, I agree with your suggested points 2 and 3. I think point 4 needs to be modified though. I like the idea of having more flexibility, 6 races out of 10, but I think we should have to run at least one race at each distance. It would not be comparable if some members were only running 3x10Ks and 3x10Ms, and others were only running 3x10Ms and 3xHalfs. If this is the case we might as well do away with the Overall championship award and just have distance awards.
As for suggestion 1, I believe the scoring system needs to be changed. The present scoring system is not fair to vets or supervets who are fast for their age group. It is almost impossible for the likes of David Thornby to win the supervets championship!
I recommend that the first man should get 25 points, second man should get 24 points regardless of category, third man 23 points regardless of category, etc. Using this year's Folkestone 10 results as an example:
Male: S.Turpie (25), A.Perkins (23), D.French (20), O.Stride (18), B.Page (17), R.Ellison (16), K.Painter (14), etc
Male B Division: N.Lake (10), S.Wing (3), etc
Vets: J.McNama (24), M.Murdoch (22), P.Ahsunollah (21), D.Moore (15), M.White (13), L.Gurr (11), etc
Vets B Division: M.Rawson (7), B.Chapman (6), A.Probert (5), A.Burgess (2), etc
Supervets: D.Thornby (19), M.Westwood (12), etc
Ladies and Ladies B Division: same scoring as above.
With this scoring system, Steve Turpie gets a 2 point advantage over Adrian, who gets 3 points more than Darren, etc. This rewards Adrian for being in front of me and Paul, and gives Darren an incentive to beat me and Paul. In the vets category, James would get an extra point over me and Paul, and we would get an extra 5 points over David Moore. The effect is most clearly seen in the supervets category, where currently David Thornby only gets 1 point more than Mick Westwood despite being miles ahead. Under my proposal, he would be 7 points ahead.
The current scoring system worked well when all the men were in two groups, seniors and vets. But introducing a supervets category and B divisions has revealed a flaw in the scoring system - vets and supervets who are fast for their age group are not properly rewarded. I believe its time we fixed this.
Regards, Mike M
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Post by Billy Whizz on Jan 10, 2012 23:21:38 GMT
For what it is worth I think the scoring should be 25 downwards in each category There should be 10 races Best six races two in each category and I think the fast for there age would get rewarded i.e Dave Thornby could have won 2 of the last 6 CC just by turning out in six races and he would of come in the top 3 3years. And whilst I'm here thank you Andrew for doing a wonderful job.
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Post by Billy Whizz on Jan 11, 2012 18:14:57 GMT
Just one more thing the whole idea of the CC was to give all the other runners a chance of winning something for once as they stand absolutely no chance in a normal race and are never likely to in there entire racing career. So making it easier for faster runners to win seems to be defeating the object, (only my opinion).
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Jan 19, 2012 20:35:03 GMT
Mike,
Thank you for your thoughts. I have had a few suggested amendments to the scoring system, but I think we will go with my suggestion of 21st December, even if only for one year to see whether or not it is an improvement. As Billy Whizz points out, the idea is to give everyone a chance of winning something, and if we change the scoring system too heavily in favour of the faster runners, we will lose that. At the moment, I still need to run two PBs per year to catch the runner in front of me over 6 races, and the thought of trying to get 30 points worth of bonuses year on year to catch the leader in my division is one which does not appeal.
It looks as if we will be doing the 10th race as a 10-miler in 2012 to assist those who will be wining and dining the night before Canterbury, but I shall try to publish a definitive list here in the next 48 hours or so.
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Jan 20, 2012 19:26:51 GMT
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Jan 25, 2012 20:52:25 GMT
This is the list of rules I am working by for 2012: Categories 1. There are four categories within the Club Championship: Ladies, Senior Men, Male Veterans (40+), Male Super-Veterans (50+). 2. The category within which a runner competes is decided for the year based on the runner’s gender and age on the date of the first club championship race they complete in the year. The runner then remains in that group for the whole of the calendar year. 3. The Ladies, Senior Men and Male Vet 40s groups are split in to two divisions, A and B, based on performance. Scoring 4. The scoring system is the same in all divisions. 5. The first runner home in each division receives 25 points, the second 24 and so on down to 5. 6. All runners who complete a Club Championship event will receive at least 5 points. 7. Bonus points are awarded for setting a personal best: 3 points for setting that personal best, plus an extra point for each full minute under a previous personal best, up to a maximum of 7 minutes. 8. A personal best is defined as the best time set since 1st January in the last three years, so for 2012, that means since 01/01/2009. 9. Where available, positions within races are decided by chip times. Where these are not available, gun times will be used. 10. There are ten races a year, at least three at each of 10K, 10 miles and Half marathon distance. Runners count their best SIX scores from these races towards their overall totals. New members 11. When a new member takes part in his or her first race, he or she will be placed in the A division if he or she beats at least one runner from that division; otherwise, he or she will go into the B division. 12. The same rule will apply to more established club members who take a break from club championship races and then return. Aging up 13. Where a runner is due to age up in the course of a year, they will compete in the age bracket for which they quailfy in the first race they complete. Thus, a runner who turns 50 on 1st February would compete for the year as a Vet if they did a Club Championship race in January, or a Supervet if they did not do their first club championship race until on or after 1st February. End of season 14. At the end of the season, the division sizes will be rebalanced, based on the actual number of runners taking part within the category. 15. Any runner who scores zero for a season will be removed from the list entirely, and allocated to a division as if he/she were a new member when he/she returns. Eligibility 16. All club members who take part in a designated club championship race will be awarded points for that race. 17. All points awarded for races between the AGM and 30th June are provisional, pending the runner paying the following year’s subscription. 18. A member whose subscription remains unpaid after 30th June will be ineligible to receive points for any races after that date, until the subscription is paid in full. In the event that a member scores points for a race and then leaves either by design or default, those points will remain with that runner until the end of the year.
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Jan 29, 2012 19:53:18 GMT
Race number 1 of the 2012 Club Championship: the Canterbury 10. Race conditions were cool and slightly misty, but otherwise ideal for the opening race of 2012. There was very little wind, so it was all down to preparation and training... 39 Harriers took part. & of those were making their debut in a club championship race, and of the longer-standing members, 10 set their fastest time since 2009. Here are the results (remember that we use CHIP timing wherever possible): 40 1:03:38 Ian FORREST MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 422 31:17 32:19 1:03:36 41 48 1:04:13 Stephen TURPIE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 24 32:06 32:05 1:04:11 68 1:06:00 Adrian PERKINS MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 44 33:00 32:58 1:05:57 70 (PB0) 72 1:06:18 Aaron HUGHES MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 124 32:33 33:43 1:06:16 73 82 1:06:59 Mike MURDOCH MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 404 33:18 33:38 1:06:56 82 (PB0) 83 1:07:01 David THORNBY MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v60 738 34:03 32:44 1:06:46 79 (PB2) 86 1:07:04 Sharon HAWKINS MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 167 32:54 34:09 1:07:02 87 96 1:07:50 Alexander HOLMES MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 760 34:20 33:24 1:07:44 97 106 1:08:18 Adam PALFERMAN MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 697 34:16 33:42 1:07:58102 (PB2) 182 1:11:43 Martyn EARL MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 343 36:16 35:03 1:11:18 175 191 1:11:58 Hannah ERSKINE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem Senior 203 35:50 35:54 1:11:44 191 (PB0) 195 1:12:03 Barrie PAGE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 272 36:08 35:45 1:11:52 199 349 1:17:55 Juliette STOPPANI MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 349 38:56 38:39 1:17:34 353 361 1:18:19 Michael WHITE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 285 38:55 39:19 1:18:14 370 369 1:18:29 Alan PROBERT MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v50 227 39:46 38:28 1:18:14 369 372 1:18:36 Kay BANFIELD MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 701 39:40 38:36 1:18:15 372 (PB0) 418 1:20:35 Phil BRADBURN MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 310 39:58 40:22 1:20:19 421 421 1:20:57 Carla KUHN MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem Senior 592 40:43 40:01 1:20:43 427 514 1:24:10 Matthew FRASER MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 817 42:06 41:06 1:23:12 497 (PB0) 538 1:24:58 Claire WORRELL MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v35 216 42:17 41:43 1:23:59 525 579 1:27:03 David HUTCHINSON MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v50 225 41:15 45:26 1:26:41 582 582 1:27:15 David NORTHCROFT MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M V60 338 44:25 41:53 1:26:18 576 611 1:28:39 Graham PEARSON MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 261 43:28 44:14 1:27:41 610 631 1:29:47 Liane FOORD MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 292 44:40 44:32 1:29:12633 635 1:29:56 David KEELING MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 698 45:02 43:58 1:28:59 625 (PB3) 636 1:29:56 Sebastian CHARLERY MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 154 43:07 46:46 1:29:52 643 671 1:32:19 Gerald KRAUSE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v50 924 46:10 45:12 1:31:22 667 681 1:32:58 Paul MOSS MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v60 12 46:48 45:13 1:32:01 678 703 1:34:05 Mel PASZKOWSKI MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v60 797 46:46 46:24 1:33:09 699 706 1:34:16 Martin PEARSON MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 535 46:32 46:48 1:33:19 703 (PB0) 731 1:35:42 Mark WHITE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M Senior 286 44:50 49:53 1:34:43 726 736 1:36:03 Toni IVES MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 491 47:37 47:28 1:35:04 732 739 1:36:22 Diane GEORGE MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 489 47:38 47:47 1:35:24 735 (PB3) 757 1:37:27 Mailynne WOOLLEY MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v45 115 48:17 48:10 1:36:27 752 805 1:40:53 Fiona MCCARTHY MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v35 151 51:21 48:33 1:39:54 803 822 1:42:51 Andrew BURGESS MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v40 262 49:15 52:31 1:41:46 822 824 1:43:11 John BROWN MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v60 973 51:55 50:53 1:42:47 824 855 1:50:10 Derek EVENDEN MAIDSTONE HARRIERS M v60 779 53:18 55:48 1:49:05 854 872 1:55:45 Adeola ELUGBADEBO-SOLOMONS MAIDSTONE HARRIERS Fem v35 768 58:12 57:13 1:55:24 876
A couple of other comments: I shall do the first set of scores after the Deal Hald as there are a couple of newer club members who may end up in either the A or B divisions of their category. Secondly, I took the chance to speak to one of the committee members at Sittingbourne who has confirmed their race on 7th October. They will be having a meeting some time this week, and entries will go live shortly thereafter.
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Post by Mike on Jan 29, 2012 23:38:19 GMT
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Jan 30, 2012 19:17:00 GMT
Great photos, Mike. Thanks to Kathy for NOT waiting around for me; I was not a pretty site!
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Post by Sir Cowarde de Custarde on Apr 7, 2012 12:25:48 GMT
Race 2 of the Club Championship was the traditional Good Friday race known as the Folkestone 10. Beneath cloudless skies and with a gentle wind, conditions for running were just about perfect, and 15 of the 44 Harriers running took full advantage and claimed themselves brand new PBs.
Below are the results I shall be using for the Club Championship points. Mick Westwood has contacted me to say he does not appear on the results, so I have inserted him in the relevant position. If there is anyone else in this same boat, please let me know!
37 01:02:52 TURPIE, Stephen Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 554 37 60 01:05:28 PERKINS, Adrian Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 381 60 (PB <0) 66 01:06:02 HUGHES, Aaron Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 28 66 79 01:07:17 HAWKINS, Sharon Maidstone Harriers Vet45 Women 403 79 83 01:07:29 ELLISON, Richard Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 590 83 (PB <0) 91 01:07:48 MOORE, David Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 356 91 (PB 1) 96 01:08:19 EARL, Martyn Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 95 96 117 01:09:34 MACFARLANE, Mark Senior Men 780 117 126 01:10:13 PALFERMAN, Adam Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 591 126 127 01:10:18 STRIDE, Oliver Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 132 127 130 01:10:38 AHSUNOLLAH, Paul Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 130 130 158 01:12:28 FRENCH, Darren Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 490 158 159 01:12:29 HOLDEN, Penny Maidstone Harriers Vet35 Women 589 159 165 01:12:44 PAINTER, Kristian Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 117 165 (PB <0) 180 01:13:44 GERARD, Martin Maidstone Harriers Vet50 Men 422 180 (PB 1) 188 01:13:59 BARNETT, Sharon Maidstone Harriers Vet35 Women 563 188 01:14:58 WESTWOOD, Mick Maidstone Harriers Vet 50 Men 206 01:15:05 LAKE, Nick Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 21 206 216 01:15:27 WHITE, Michael Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 582 216 222 01:15:41 STOPPANI, Julie Maidstone Harriers Vet45 Women 406 222 229 01:16:00 PROBERT, Alan Maidstone Harriers Vet50 Men 332 229 (PB <0) 240 01:16:36 MCKINNON, Glen Maidstone Harriers Vet50 Men 13 240 244 01:16:47 NICOLAIDES, Michael Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 527 244 (PB 2) 245 01:16:47 BANFIELD, Kay Maidstone Harriers Vet45 Women 592 245 (PB 1) 256 01:17:34 COOPER, Elizabeth Maidstone Harriers Senior Women 492 256 257 01:17:36 HEWETT, Mark Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 313 257 258 01:17:36 RAWSON, Mark Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 77 258 261 01:17:54 BRENTON, Sarah Maidstone Harriers Vet35 Women 190 261 (PB <0) 323 01:22:15 HARWOOD, Andrew Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 355 323 327 01:22:28 NORTHCROFT, David Maidstone Harriers Vet60+ Men 407 327 349 01:24:13 FOORD, Liane Maidstone Harriers Vet45 Women 351 349 357 01:24:43 BURGESS, Andrew Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 504 357 360 01:24:56 WALSH, David Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 262 360 (PB 5) 362 01:25:14 PEAKE, Craig Maidstone Harriers Vet50 Men 405 362 364 01:25:22 PEARSON, Graham Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 129 364 (PB 1) 383 01:26:13 PASZKOWSKI, Mel Maidstone Harriers Vet60+ Men 328 383 (PB 3) 391 01:26:54 CHARLERY, Sebastian Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 125 391 (PB 2) 441 01:31:30 WHITE, Mark Maidstone Harriers Senior Men 103 441 (PB 3) 453 01:32:30 KEELING, David Maidstone Harriers Vet40 Men 214 453 477 01:34:54 MOSS, Paul Maidstone Harriers Vet60+ Men 12 477 532 01:43:10 GEORGE, Diane Maidstone Harriers Vet45 Women 171 532 542 01:45:45 WATLING, Sonia Maidstone Harriers Vet35 Women 596 542 570 01:58:35 WING, Julie Maidstone Harriers Vet55+ Women 460 570 574 02:15:52 WING, Stephen Maidstone Harriers Vet60+ Men 461 574
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